Comments on: Interview of Mike Young and Jim McColl on their Droplet: New Water for Old – Speeding Up the Reform Process http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/ Igniting Ideas Fri, 12 Mar 2010 09:18:38 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: Youtube and the Age of Reason? « LitFuse http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/#comment-400 Youtube and the Age of Reason? « LitFuse Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:10:05 +0000 http://litfuse.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/interview-of-mike-young-and-jim-mccoll-on-their-droplet-new-water-for-old-speeding-up-the-reform-process/#comment-400 [...] Mike Young and Jim McColl: Speeding up the Water Reform Process [...] [...] Mike Young and Jim McColl: Speeding up the Water Reform Process [...]

]]> By: Learning with the Fang » Blog Archive » My response to droplet podcast http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/#comment-7 Learning with the Fang » Blog Archive » My response to droplet podcast Thu, 18 Oct 2007 07:04:15 +0000 http://litfuse.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/interview-of-mike-young-and-jim-mccoll-on-their-droplet-new-water-for-old-speeding-up-the-reform-process/#comment-7 [...] to the first ‘droplet’ podcast over at the litfuse website. By linking to the ‘trackback url’ of a blog post one can join part of an extended conversation about that topic. I think [...] [...] to the first ‘droplet’ podcast over at the litfuse website. By linking to the ‘trackback url’ of a blog post one can join part of an extended conversation about that topic. I think [...]

]]> By: mseyfang http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/#comment-6 mseyfang Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:56:26 +0000 http://litfuse.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/interview-of-mike-young-and-jim-mccoll-on-their-droplet-new-water-for-old-speeding-up-the-reform-process/#comment-6 Leaving a comment [like this] is just one way to extend the conversation about this blog post. Another way [for readers who have a blog] is to write a blog post and use the 'trackback' facility to link back to this post. That is what the 'trackback url [?] that appears just below each blog post is for. The trackback url for this post is: http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/trackback/ I will create a test response to demonstrate. Fang - Mike Seyfang Leaving a comment [like this] is just one way to extend the conversation about this blog post.

Another way [for readers who have a blog] is to write a blog post and use the ‘trackback’ facility to link back to this post. That is what the ‘trackback url [?] that appears just below each blog post is for. The trackback url for this post is:

http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/trackback/

I will create a test response to demonstrate.

Fang – Mike Seyfang

]]> By: Sara Hughes http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/#comment-5 Sara Hughes Thu, 18 Oct 2007 06:55:32 +0000 http://litfuse.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/interview-of-mike-young-and-jim-mccoll-on-their-droplet-new-water-for-old-speeding-up-the-reform-process/#comment-5 There seems to be an implication that rearranging water entitlement, planning, register, and trading schemes will somehow de-politicize the water sector in Australia. In an apolitical, asocial world these kinds of reforms would fall neatly into place and work with precision and efficiency. However, there are reasons that the inefficient system we have today developed the way it did, and the forces behind these reasons may quite possibly hold the same level of political clout they did when the current system was implemented. The goal of the proposal in the droplet is to reallocate water through mechanisms that attempt to side-steps politics; however to make a lasting change it may be that these exact political forces are what will be able to ensure the desired outcomes. Otherwise, any new system is in danger of being "highjacked" by stakeholders, political parties, or inveseted user groups. These need to be addressed and incorporated into any reform efforts. Also highly specialized market-based policy systems need near-perfect information with which to operate. Are we at the point where we can claim such knowledge? Look forward to more conversation, great droplet!! There seems to be an implication that rearranging water entitlement, planning, register, and trading schemes will somehow de-politicize the water sector in Australia. In an apolitical, asocial world these kinds of reforms would fall neatly into place and work with precision and efficiency. However, there are reasons that the inefficient system we have today developed the way it did, and the forces behind these reasons may quite possibly hold the same level of political clout they did when the current system was implemented. The goal of the proposal in the droplet is to reallocate water through mechanisms that attempt to side-steps politics; however to make a lasting change it may be that these exact political forces are what will be able to ensure the desired outcomes. Otherwise, any new system is in danger of being “highjacked” by stakeholders, political parties, or inveseted user groups. These need to be addressed and incorporated into any reform efforts. Also highly specialized market-based policy systems need near-perfect information with which to operate. Are we at the point where we can claim such knowledge? Look forward to more conversation, great droplet!!

]]> By: Joe Flynn http://blog.litfuse.com.au/2007/10/10/droplet9/#comment-4 Joe Flynn Thu, 18 Oct 2007 04:04:30 +0000 http://litfuse.wordpress.com/2007/10/10/interview-of-mike-young-and-jim-mccoll-on-their-droplet-new-water-for-old-speeding-up-the-reform-process/#comment-4 I agree with Mike & Jim's sentiments of moving entitlements and trading into an efficient system. I see parallels with how the electricity market has addressed this issue, particularly as they have evolved through deregulation reforms over the last decade. An electricity market prices in scarcity and risk over various periods (hours, months, years in advance), connects buyers and willing sellers, and also links to physical dispatch of generators. While the electricity trading system has some similarities to water there are some fundamental diffrences and the electricity market is a long way from perfect. For example it suffers from buying from a market (wholesale) and then selling (retail) into a politically regulated market. However it is an industry that has addressed capacity, pricing and trading and there would be some insights to learn from. The technicalities of how it works and also how they have overcome the barriers to reform. On a second point. We need to ensure we frame the vocabulary of the converstaion around the problems it solves for users/customers and less of the pure (and very accurate) economic terms such as price, profit, etc.. This will make it easier for the subject to be discussed and engaged with at a political and community level. Anyone like to participate in an exchange of experience / ideas with the electricity industry? I know the National Generators Forum happens to be meeting in Adelaide on Nov 6. PS. Great blog/forum to stimulate the discussion and imagination. Well done Paul. I agree with Mike & Jim’s sentiments of moving entitlements and trading into an efficient system.

I see parallels with how the electricity market has addressed this issue, particularly as they have evolved through deregulation reforms over the last decade.

An electricity market prices in scarcity and risk over various periods (hours, months, years in advance), connects buyers and willing sellers, and also links to physical dispatch of generators.

While the electricity trading system has some similarities to water there are some fundamental diffrences and the electricity market is a long way from perfect. For example it suffers from buying from a market (wholesale) and then selling (retail) into a politically regulated market.

However it is an industry that has addressed capacity, pricing and trading and there would be some insights to learn from. The technicalities of how it works and also how they have overcome the barriers to reform.

On a second point. We need to ensure we frame the vocabulary of the converstaion around the problems it solves for users/customers and less of the pure (and very accurate) economic terms such as price, profit, etc.. This will make it easier for the subject to be discussed and engaged with at a political and community level.

Anyone like to participate in an exchange of experience / ideas with the electricity industry? I know the National Generators Forum happens to be meeting in Adelaide on Nov 6.

PS. Great blog/forum to stimulate the discussion and imagination. Well done Paul.

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